Norm Jones: I was just raised with this awareness that there is complexity out there and cultural depth. And I was fascinated by that. And I became historian of the Reformation because of this moment when people go, "I was that, but I know people are something else." And how do you construct that world when most places are sort of single culture things? And that's why I'm interested in where that edge between religions, when people all work in the same space.
Ann Norman: I could echo all of those words. And that's somewhere the answer to world peace lies in that. And that's another thing that drives me.
And I didn't know this until I was in Paris on my mission. And I got a lot of static for spending so much time with all these Arab people that were Muslim, and they were never going to be Christian, but driven by this internal feeling that God gave me. You only change things when you know them from the inside. But if you don't understand them as one of them, you can never have a seat at the table. And if they don't understand you, as one of them, they can never have a seat at your table. And it's the beauty of the "and" you don't have to be on this side: "But I can't recognize this side." You can be here and understand and be a part of a community.
Norm Jones: Yeah, yeah, that's ... that's a nice way to put it because you can be in a community even though you might disagree on some things, but you can recognize one another's humanity. Yeah. And maybe also recognize that participation in the same reality, that same "godness."
Ann Norman: Yeah, and God is no respecter of persons. He listens to everybody doesn't matter what way you pray, what way you ask. Even — Friday, I went out and had a really fascinating conversation with a lady — she grew up as a witch. I was like, "Wow, tell me about that!" It was so interesting. And she is incredibly spiritual and good. And as I've told other people about that it scared them. I'm like, "No, it's not scary. I don't have to be a witch."
Norm Jones: Just knowing about it doesn't make you one.
Ann Norman: Don't you find it so fascinating that 80% of what we believe is the same thing, but it's different vocabulary words. That's it. Part of why I love Islam so much, and I have so many Islamic friends: their moral code is very similar to mine. So when I spend time with them as a friend, I don't have to explain myself. They just accept me.
Norm Jones: I think what it has done for me is — it's like the screen keeps getting larger and larger. As you see more and more people you have more and more experiences that confirm this mutual humanity in the midst of all the violence and the hatred. And the mystery then becomes, why are we having such a hard time recognizing that sharedness? It's too easy to build walls. And my great educational goal is to find people like you, that can see that.
Ann Norman: They're out there. That's what I learned. And they do want to talk they're not trying to change you and what you fundamentally believe. It's the beauty of the "and." Be moral, be ethical. Listen. Try to find a solution. I've worked and lived in two war zones and you can't eradicate another group of people because you don't like them, or you don't agree with them. That's never the answer. So why not try to find a common ground?
